Half Ashed live?

[Zedman05]

That article talks about the water molecule "displacing" the nitrogen and oxygen. Where do those 2 go ? If this is an open environment, this may be possible, but we are talking about a closed box (humidor). There will be less displacement. Therefor the air will become heavier, no ? In theory, you are adding that water molecule to the O and N to gain weight and not push it out. Am I crazy here ? I work with humidity for a living, and this is backwards to the way things have already been shown and proved to me.

[Stewmuse]

Here's a brief summary of how dry air is heavier than humid air....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/cap ... 90876665ea

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Very informative. But what I take away is toward the end of the article where it demonstrates the actual difference is so miniscule that it can't really matter in a space anywhere near as small as even the largest of humidors.

I think that's an improper assumption. Static spaces would pretty quickly regulate themselves. The weight seems minuscule to us but in comparison, that is a pretty large variation. I have no evidence to back up speed but have noted in my own 4' high cabinet that this occurs pretty shortly after the door is shut. (less than 12 hours)

If I read you correctly, I think your response only corroborates my statement. Or perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm saying that because our humidors are inherently small, that whether the more humid air rises or falls just doesn't matter. It's simply too small of a difference to matter where in the humidor you take a reading or place your cigars.

[kurtdesign1]

Very informative. But what I take away is toward the end of the article where it demonstrates the actual difference is so miniscule that it can't really matter in a space anywhere near as small as even the largest of humidors.

I think that's an improper assumption. Static spaces would pretty quickly regulate themselves. The weight seems minuscule to us but in comparison, that is a pretty large variation. I have no evidence to back up speed but have noted in my own 4' high cabinet that this occurs pretty shortly after the door is shut. (less than 12 hours)

If I read you correctly, I think your response only corroborates my statement. Or perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm saying that because our humidors are inherently small, that whether the more humid air rises or falls just doesn't matter. It's simply too small of a difference to matter where in the humidor you take a reading or place your cigars.

Same goes for me missing something but I think my cigars smoke differently when stored at different Rh. 66-69 just tastes different. That's not too small to me. Granted, in a desktop this is pointless because there isn't the volume to create the room for variation. I'm talking noticeable variations in cabinets or larger.

[kurtdesign1]

That article talks about the water molecule "displacing" the nitrogen and oxygen. Where do those 2 go ? If this is an open environment, this may be possible, but we are talking about a closed box (humidor). There will be less displacement. Therefor the air will become heavier, no ? In theory, you are adding that water molecule to the O and N to gain weight and not push it out. Am I crazy here ? I work with humidity for a living, and this is backwards to the way things have already been shown and proved to me.

I would imagine the thing missing is that not all of the "air" molecules hold the same amount of water vapor so the easy answer is that they all move. As the vapor becomes airborn and bonds with the other molecules you get a convective loop. I would also imagine that behavior in a vacuum, in an enclosure or in open air environments are very, very different.

[jledou]

That article talks about the water molecule "displacing" the nitrogen and oxygen. Where do those 2 go ? If this is an open environment, this may be possible, but we are talking about a closed box (humidor). There will be less displacement. Therefor the air will become heavier, no ? In theory, you are adding that water molecule to the O and N to gain weight and not push it out. Am I crazy here ? I work with humidity for a living, and this is backwards to the way things have already been shown and proved to me.

In this case think of it as the Oxygen and the Nitrogen talking with each other then you have the water molecule in vapor form butting in between them and interrupting the conversation. In reality there is a very large space between the molecule when you look at that scale for the water vapor molecule to fit into so the displacement is only relative. Other thing when talking in closed volumes (humidor) and gases. the gas and water vapor equalize based on temperature (humidity) but more molecules and higher temperature for a vapor in a closed space equals more pressure.

[Zedman05]

That article talks about the water molecule "displacing" the nitrogen and oxygen. Where do those 2 go ? If this is an open environment, this may be possible, but we are talking about a closed box (humidor). There will be less displacement. Therefor the air will become heavier, no ? In theory, you are adding that water molecule to the O and N to gain weight and not push it out. Am I crazy here ? I work with humidity for a living, and this is backwards to the way things have already been shown and proved to me.

In this case think of it as the Oxygen and the Nitrogen talking with each other then you have the water molecule in vapor form butting in between them and interrupting the conversation. In reality there is a very large space between the molecule when you look at that scale for the water vapor molecule to fit into so the displacement is only relative. Other thing when talking in closed volumes (humidor) and gases. the gas and water vapor equalize based on temperature (humidity) but more molecules and higher temperature for a vapor in a closed space equals more pressure.

But if the water molecule is now in that air, with the O and N molecules, no matter how much space is in between them, you have now added that H2O weight to the O and N...in a contained environment. I don't understand your "talking" inference, sorry. I am only talking weight of the "air" in our closed humidors. This is where my line of thinking is, not outside in an open environment.
The article just states that the O and N will be displaced, and thus the water vapor will float up.... I am not sure I get the idea behind addition of weight makes for lighter, more boyant "air", because after all we are talking about air ( mostly Nitrogen, some Oxygen and then other gasses). If you add up what those 2 atoms weigh, they are lighter than a molecule of Hydrogen bonded with 2 Oxygen atoms. Thus my dilema of why the "water vapor" would be lighter and therefor float in the air, instead of sink. 1 Oxygen = 16 u + 1 N = 14 u giving you 30 u total.
1 H = 1 u + 2 O = 32 u giving you an atomic weight of 33 u total. How will this float ?

[jledou]

That article talks about the water molecule "displacing" the nitrogen and oxygen. Where do those 2 go ? If this is an open environment, this may be possible, but we are talking about a closed box (humidor). There will be less displacement. Therefor the air will become heavier, no ? In theory, you are adding that water molecule to the O and N to gain weight and not push it out. Am I crazy here ? I work with humidity for a living, and this is backwards to the way things have already been shown and proved to me.

In this case think of it as the Oxygen and the Nitrogen talking with each other then you have the water molecule in vapor form butting in between them and interrupting the conversation. In reality there is a very large space between the molecule when you look at that scale for the water vapor molecule to fit into so the displacement is only relative. Other thing when talking in closed volumes (humidor) and gases. the gas and water vapor equalize based on temperature (humidity) but more molecules and higher temperature for a vapor in a closed space equals more pressure.

But if the water molecule is now in that air, with the O and N molecules, no matter how much space is in between them, you have now added that H2O weight to the O and N...in a contained environment. I don't understand your "talking" inference, sorry. I am only talking weight of the "air" in our closed humidors. This is where my line of thinking is, not outside in an open environment.
The article just states that the O and N will be displaced, and thus the water vapor will float up.... I am not sure I get the idea behind addition of weight makes for lighter, more boyant "air", because after all we are talking about air ( mostly Nitrogen, some Oxygen and then other gasses). If you add up what those 2 atoms weigh, they are lighter than a molecule of Hydrogen bonded with 2 Oxygen atoms. Thus my dilema of why the "water vapor" would be lighter and therefor float in the air, instead of sink. 1 Oxygen = 16 u + 1 N = 14 u giving you 30 u total.
1 H = 1 u + 2 O = 32 u giving you an atomic weight of 33 u total. How will this float ?

In this case Oxygen is only found in nature as O2 or 32 and similarly nitrogen is N2 at 28 MW. Water is H20 so 18 MW.

[Kip]

Also, water is 2 Hydrogen atoms bound to a single Oxygen atom, but I wasn't gonna say anything....

[Zedman05]

Holy crap, I knew both of those last 2 posts, and completely brain-farted my way through the post.
Thanks guys for showing me that I need to pay attention...just a little bit....fack...
And here we just had a sit-down with our oldest about paying attention and effort in school last night. I am going to tell my wife to disiplin me when I get home ^_^

[Stewmuse]

Def a show this evening, 2-16??? 🧐