Cuban/NC Blends

[kurtdesign1]

Lots of chatter recently about Non Cuban and Cuban cigar worlds mixing. This is across the board: manufacturers moving, Cuba using NC tobacco, true blends across country lines from traditional manufacturers. What say you? Do you have opionions about the new Cuban Partagas Maduro? Do you think a true blend would be the be all & end all? What are your thoughts? I'm most intrigued about how much this is beign discussed and why...

[IWinchester]

I've heard the Partagas Maduro has NC tobacco in it, and would be interested in trying it. True blends sound fantastic! Mexican San Andreas with Cuban fillers? Yes please

[Zedman05]

My belief is that there could be a really good blend, but there can also be a very bland and uneventful blend. It all depends on the tobaccos, and the blender. I like what I am smoking now, but would love to try some cuban blended broadleaf wrapped cigars.
I have no comments about the parti maduro, as I have not tried it.

Cigar F^iend

[Kip]

My belief is that there could be a really good blend, but there can also be a very bland and uneventful blend.

That would be my expectation, at least initially. For the most part, it's unexplored territory. Today's blenders don't - for the most part - have much (if any) experience mixing the two (NC/C). The world is a much smaller place since those blenders focused on the American market had access to Cuban tobacco. We've had generational changes in the people working the tobacco - and the tobacco itself. They'll probably need to experiment a bit to see how these tobaccos play together. I hope they don't get all worked up in a tizzy to get things to market that they underdevelop the product before shipping.

Also, some neophyte questions: Just because the US opens up to Cuban products, what makes us think Cuba will be especially willing to part with their tobacco for other cigar companies? Why do we think the Cuban expatriots (who are so prevalent in non-Cuban cigar companies) will be especially willing to buy/use the tobacco before a sweeping regime change has occurred? There are many Cubans in the the non-Cuban cigar industry who would never buy and use Cuban tobacco in their products without a complete governmental change. I'm not so sure a few first steps - even in the right direction - will be enough that we will see a huge change in our cigars soon.

[kurtdesign1]

My belief is that there could be a really good blend, but there can also be a very bland and uneventful blend.

That would be my expectation, at least initially. For the most part, it's unexplored territory. Today's blenders don't - for the most part - have much (if any) experience mixing the two (NC/C). The world is a much smaller place since those blenders focused on the American market had access to Cuban tobacco. We've had generational changes in the people working the tobacco - and the tobacco itself. They'll probably need to experiment a bit to see how these tobaccos play together. I hope they don't get all worked up in a tizzy to get things to market that they underdevelop the product before shipping.

Also, some neophyte questions: Just because the US opens up to Cuban products, what makes us think Cuba will be especially willing to part with their tobacco for other cigar companies? Why do we think the Cuban expatriots (who are so prevalent in non-Cuban cigar companies) will be especially willing to buy/use the tobacco before a sweeping regime change has occurred? There are many Cubans in the the non-Cuban cigar industry who would never buy and use Cuban tobacco in their products without a complete governmental change. I'm not so sure a few first steps - even in the right direction - will be enough that we will see a huge change in our cigars soon.

Lots here. Cuban tobacco is always available at tobacco markets. It's quality & provinence are often suspect but it is available. I have to think that when so many of these blenders first start working with tobacco again in the "free" world that they gravitate, at least somewhat, to what they know. I'd bet many of them have worked with exported cuban tobacco. They may not be highly experienced but that's probably not as big of a deal as you'd think. Regarding your comments about tobacco changing and/or generational impact on familiarity, I think this may not be as big of an issue. I don't have first hand knowledge here but I think it is reasonably certain that the tobacco exported was not part of the government allotments. It is known that cuban farmers have crops of their own. It's truly how leaf variatials like Sancti Spiritus & Pelo de oro have survived. Many others as well are no longer grown by the government and have to be kept up illegally. Thus, the tobacco types may be exactly what people were used to working with. True Cuban corojo & criollo may still be grown. I think it's reasonable to think.

Regarding your second point (and I do not have enough experience with expat Cubans to know the percentages here), do you think most Cubans leave for a better life or to flee the government? I'm sure there's crossover but people from the ghetto fear the surroundings, not just hate the government. I'm not sure there are many staunch anti-Castros in the industry, so much so that they'd avoid Cuban products. There will definitely be some but I almost think there's so few it would be bad business not to experiment.

I *think* I know of 4 cigars to have been blended with N/C & Cuban tobacco. I may not be correct because all of this information is 2nd hand. I'd say that 2 were excellent, 1 was acceptable and the other I did not try:
-GAR Zulu Zulu - I have been informed by a source that the two "artsy" releases from 4 or 5 years ago were made with a bale of cuban tobacco.
-D'Crossier - I've heard through the grapevine that this contained Cuban tobacco. Take that with a grain of salt. Nevertheless, the cigar was fantastic.
-Gran Habano Private Label - This was 50% Panamanian & 50% Cuban - Excellent
-Some Canadian regional release abotu 10 years ago - I can't remember this name but I think it had a green or frog theme. I know it's thin but hey, at least I can remember something.

What I take from this is that there's no secret predetermined outcome to be expected here. A good cigar is possible with Cuban tobacco & N/C tobacco but I don't think it's any easier or harder to create than other good cigars. Cuban tobacco strikes me as being like some other unique leaf types. You're not going to mix Sumatran & broadleaf. They'll work against each other. I imagine Cuban and some others will be oil & water. Like anything else, it will be fun to figure out.

[kurtdesign1]

Is it just coincidence that I've heard 2 or 3 reasonable Cuban/Non-Cuban mashup stories recently?

[Zedman05]

To Kip's part: I too think there are a lot of ex-Cubans in the industry that will not work with the tobacco, correct. Buuuuut, there are guys like David Garafallo who will swoop in and buy everything they can and try to make as many contacts as possible *cough he went on the Cigar Tourism trip already just for that reason to Cuba cough* so that he can just have them either make it or he can sell direct. You know there are Americans who don't give a rats ass about the government there, when they can make a boat load of money at the beginning.
I have very little faith that the cigar blending venture will capitalize on a great cigar market. I think we shall get all the tobaccos that the Cuban government is already willing to let go because it is not the same quality as the stuff for their regular productions. It is, after all, still government run. I really doubt there is enough extra tobacco of a good enough quality just sitting around for extra cigars. I have seen how many "meh" boxes come off the island already compared to NC regular production regularity.
They need to expand their good tobacco fields and make large quanitities of great cigars before they can sell what they don't have....imho.

Cigar F^iend

[kurtdesign1]

They need to expand their good tobacco fields and make large quanitities of great cigars before they can sell what they don't have....imho.

Cigar F^iend

This is apparently waiting for the time when it is necessary to do so. There are other fields earmarked for tobacco that are currently being farmed for other exports. Lots of them... No need overproducing when there isn't currently the demand. Plus, there is already a stockpile of cigars waiting for export. This has been triple confirmed.


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[Kip]

I'm not sure there are many staunch anti-Castros in the industry, so much so that they'd avoid Cuban products. There will definitely be some but I almost think there's so few it would be bad business not to experiment.

I was with you until this point. I'm certain there's a hefty percentage that would absolutely refuse to buy Cuban goods under the current administration - even to the detriment of their business. There's a difference between fleeing a "ghetto" and fleeing those who have killed/imprisoned your own family. The firsthand horror stories I've heard from Cubanos are life-altering. Many didn't flee and forget. They would have vengeance were it in their hands. Now, my experience is based largely on Cubans in Miami, and to a lesser degree a few here in the DR.

Admittedly, it's not universal. Some cigar families are distanced from the Cuban revolution - like Fuente, for example. They left Cuba 60 years before the revolution. While I've heard Carlito speak very negatively about the current Cuban government, his immediate family were largely in Tampa at the time. I don't know where they would fall in this whole speculative point.

What I take from this is that there's no secret predetermined outcome to be expected here. A good cigar is possible with Cuban tobacco & N/C tobacco but I don't think it's any easier or harder to create than other good cigars. Cuban tobacco strikes me as being like some other unique leaf types. You're not going to mix Sumatran & broadleaf. They'll work against each other. I imagine Cuban and some others will be oil & water. Like anything else, it will be fun to figure out.

That's an excellent point. I'd allowed some of that foggy, Cuban "mystique" creep into my last post. Sometimes I do that. I blame the tumor.

[kurtdesign1]

I fully understand the ghetto/government analogy. I would postulate that there are fewer Cuban expatriates with 1st hand physical scars from the administration than there are expatriates who fled to find a better financial and less controlled life. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't know too many subtle Cubans. I've heard stories from some but not many.


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